tv Up W Chris Hayes MSNBC February 9, 2013 8:00am-10:00am EST
start their business and launch their dreams. go to lelzoom.com toy and make your business dream a reality. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. ♪ good morning from new york. i'm chris hayes. five people were killed overnight in a rocket attack on a former u.s. base in iraq. that now houses members of the iranian group known as the m.e.k. and more than 6,000 people are without power in new york from the nor'easter. we want to get the latest from ron mott in providence, rhode island, ron? >> reporter: hey, as you mentioned, the power is story
for as you mentioned 6,000 people or so, long island sound took on brutal winds and that caused a lot of the power outages here in rhode island. about 185,000 customers of national grid without power. so about almost 40% of their customer base. that's a lot of folks, unfortunately. and it's going to be a long time, perhaps, before a lot of them get their power back on because of all this snow out here. now, this is stuff piled up by snow crews, as plows coming through trying to keep portions of downtown open here. fortunately, there's not a lot of traffic. that's a good thing. they got to keep the roads open because these are arteries to trauma centers. hopefully, we won't have muched me for that today. but obviously, they're trying to get everything out of the way for power crews to assess the situation. one thing we can talk about, the fact that this snow will stop falling, hopefully, within the next hour or so so the crews can start working in earnest today to get the power restored.
massachusetts fared a little better, we think, in terms of power. but there's a lot of snow on the ground here. travel is going to be a mess here. we're a block away from the amtrak station. they're shut down. logan shut down. folks may be another day or two. keep your patience and try to stay warm. chris back to you. >> nbc's ron mott in providence. stay warm out there. we'll be checking back on the storm's progress throughout the program. on monday, the senate is scheduled to vote on whether to reauthorize the violence against women act. the vote comes after the house failed to reauthorize vila. the first time since the bill originally passed in 1994, it was not reauthorized easily and with bipartisan support. the widespread and deserved outrage at the bill not being reauthorized san indication of how accustomed we've become to bills like this.
it's easy to forget only a generation ago, ms magazine published a cover story in 1976 that was considered generally revolutionary. it was when women's society tame to see violence against women as an issue to be addressed by policymakers. that is one of complete social transformations of how we view the world and feminists. a new documentary, called makers, women who make america. chronicles the history of the second amendment that led to epic levels of violence against women. mark quinn, former police officer, talks about how the document finally broke through. >> it wasn't strong leadership and politicians. it wasn't police leaders or judges. it was the women's movement which forced lawmakers and
police executives to stand up and say enough is enough. >> joining us now it's my great pleasure to introduce gloria steinem, co-funder of ms magazine. and marlo thomas, activist, actress and contributing to the huffington post.coming in and braving the weather. >> i love the documentary. it's fantastic. there are bits of lost history. even though i have read chronicles in history of the feminist movement. one of the things that's striking to me is someone who now makes his living the day in and day out of politics. is it politics as we cover them on collision that can seem owe transactional. and the women's movement at this moment was such a spiritual and psychological awakening, but it was something more than politics it was as actually a genuine
revolution of consciousness. i'm curious when you think when the moment happened for you that your consciousness did change. marlo? >> for me, i think it was the mail i got when i was doing "that girl." i was a single girl on television, i thought i was doing great. i knew i was the first single girl on television. i knew that was groundbreaking. what i didn't realize, the nature of what was happening to girls and women all over the country. when the mail started coming in instead of just saying i love your hairdo which is what some of them do, i would receive a letter, i'm 16 years old, i'm pregnant, i can't tell my father. where can i go? i'm 22 years old, my husband beats me and i have no job. where can i go? i was completely floored to be receiving this mail. i realized they were identifying with a young woman because they thought i was the only one.
as i tried to find them places to go in 1966, i realized there wasn't anyplace for them to go. not for legal information. not for safety. not for comfort. not for anything. and that politicized me. >> that is fascinating. so you had this sudden window into the private lives of thousands of women across the country? >> yes, yes. >> and gloria, you talk in innmakers of kind of having a moment of consciousness and awakening. and i guess i thought of you as -- you know -- >> as always there? >> exactly. you're so iconic, you thought, as soon as you can walk and talk. >> the amazing thing for me is how long it took me to figure this out. because i was having all these experiences of being unable to get an apartment because landlords thought you couldn't pay, or if you could, you must be a prostitute. you know, i had great difficulty getting any kind of assignment that wasn't, you know, a ster
stereotypically a feminist. and guys would get all the assignments. somehow, i didn't take it seriously until a couple things happened. one was welfare was a huge issue, as it has continued to be. and i was working with the national welfare rights organization. and they did the first feminist analysis of social policy i'd ever seen because they compared the welfare system to a gigantic husband that looked under your bed to see if those are the shoes of another guy. >> right, right. >> and, you know, is this one of the many ways women have gotten leadership actually. disproportionately, women on welfare. and then i also went to cover an early hearing on abortion. because right before roe v. wade, the new york state legislature was trying to
consider whether to liberalize the laws. so they invited 14 men, i think, and one nun to testify. >> amazing. >> you can't make this stuff up. so a group of -- >> she was doing the real commenting. >> so a group of early feminists had a hearing. said, wait a minute, let's hear from women who have really had this experience. in a church basement in the village, they had a hearing. as the girl reporter for "new york magazine" i went to cover it. and that was huge p. >> and you went from being a reporting reporting on this to being an activist/participant? >> yeah, the guys who i was working with, seriously nice guys at "new york magazine." took me aside, after i wrote the piece about abortion, was beginning to wonder if one in three women has this experience how come it's illegal and dangerous. they took me aside and said, oh,
gloria, don't get involved with these crazy women. >> the craziness, the crazy women, one of the things fascinating about the documentary, it attracts the progress and the backlash. and in some ways it's kind of divided. i'm curious, when you watch the film, at some level, the progress is deniable. the help wanted sections divided into women wanted and men wanted to me, someone born in 1979, after active feminism, this seems ridiculous, right. how could it be this way. in some ways it's undeniable. but in other ways are there's a high water mark reached in 1970s that feels very different than the politics. the equal rights amend three ways away from being ratified from the constitution. i found out in the documentary there was a law passed to subsidize child care under the nixon administration, vetoed by
richard nixon, that seems like a distant, some other lost planet. and i'm curious how you view our progress, when you kind of look at it in toto, marlo, like where are we? >> well, i think that -- i don't believe that there's a backlash. i think that there's a sort of taking for granted. you know? you have women that are running companies who have, i think, 17, 21 women are heads of fortune 500 companies. 21 out of 500. but there used to be zero. i remember when i was about 16, my father took me to washington. and he was very excited to take me to look at the senate gallery. i was only 16. i certainly wasn't what one would call a feminist. i don't think we even had the worried yet. and i looked down, i said to my father, daddy, there aren't any women. it was an observation. it was like a brooks brother ad. everybody had a chute and white shirt and tie. i couldn't get over it. now, there are 20 women in the senate. i mean, it's certainly not
enough. but we are slowly making our way to where we belong. 20% is not 50%. which is what we should be. but i think the most important thing for us now is that we've become leaders. >> yeah. >> that we get out of the middle and get out of the minority and take our right full place as leaders in business. >> when you said numbers, if i asked you in 1978 what the version would be, what the 1978 of you would have answered. i'll hear after this break. [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation, so i used my citi thankyou card to pick up some accessories. a new belt. some nylons. and what girl wouldn't need new shoes? and with all the points i've been earning, i was able to get us a flight to our favorite climbing spot even on a holiday weekend.
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you think you would have answered? >> i don't know what i would have answered about the senate but i would think we had a democracy. i would have thought now that we earned majority support on every single issue, from the equal rights amend to roe v. wade, i thought that would be the law of the land, you know? i didn't understand that politically speaking there would be such a backlash. and the backlash would control one whole entire political party. i mean, most republicans don't agree with what the pretty cat platform is but a very right wing backlash group controls the primaries and they're now paying the price for that. >> this is really a fascinating aspect that comes out in the documentary is, we now think of the issues around women's reproductive choices and quality as being cleaved along tight partisan lines.
if you go back to 1970ss it's not so neat. here's bella abzug in 1973, she's talking about women seizing power in both parties. take a look. >> for women who are democrats can make certain that they rock and change that. so women who are republicans can grow and organize and so they can rock and change that republican policy structure. so the women in independence begin to build a more radical movement which is right for all of us in our power structure. >> these women are not kidding. they are deadly serious. what they want, what they are demanding is a greater share in the political power of this nation and if their enthusiasm is they're not going to be
satisfied until they get. >> amazing footage there. >> and they're not kidding. >> this is republican president, gerald ford endorsing the equal rights amendment, take a look. >> the equal rights amendment which i whole hardlily endorse has not yet been ratified by the number of states necessary to make it a part of our constitution. let 1975, international women's year, be the year that e.r.a. is ratified. when we discuss women's problems, we are talking about people's problems. women's liberation is truly the liberation of all people. >> well, if the republican supported the equal rights amendment before the democratic party did. then we had real republicans. you know, who were pro-choice, who didn't think that the government should be in the
rooms of women but off the backs of corporations. you know, we had real individual rights republicans. >> what changed. >> the backlash -- >> yeah, talk about the backlash. >> now, the backlash was not just against the women's movement. it was against, for instance, the civil rights act of 1964, when you got somebody like jesse helms, who was a democrat, a racist democrat, was so upset with the idea of racial inclusion, that he left the democratic party and became a republic tan. and that has been happening. so southern democrats have and 8,000 fundamentalist baptist churches and so on have taken over the republican party and fundamentally changed it. >> one of the things that's interesting. gender is a key element to that backlash. >> well, it's the whole game. because you have to control -- we don't talk about it. but controlling reproduction is even more important than controlling production.
and you can't control reproduction unless you control women. so you get the same groups being against contraception, against abortion, which prevents abortion, which means no sense. you get especially racist groups being against reproductive rights because they can see that the country is becoming a no longer majority-like country and they're in a panic about this. these -- women are not -- women are part of everything. and fundamental to everything. and reproduction is fundamental to everything. so it's the center of the backlash. >> i want to talk about reproductive and roe and the centrality of that as we take a break. i'm a conservative investor.
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you talked about reproductive choice and the centrality of that and how it's sort of a threshold issue because it's a precondition for other forms of self-determination for women. and this is an amazing -- so roe v. wade, you know, obviously, it was argued in 1971. and it was decided subsequently. and this is an amazing think, a legal argument, actually my wife who's an attorney called my attention to with an e-mail last night. just to give you a sense of the era. this is the opening statements by the texas arguing to uphold the ban on abortion. his name is jay floyd. take a listen to him as he appears before the court. this is how he opens his argument. >> thank you, mrs. weddington, mr. floyd? >> mr. chief justice, may it please the court, it's an old
joke, but when a man argues against two beautiful ladies like this, they are going to have the last word. >> like get a load of these names, huh? in arguments, roe v. wade. >> i know. >> how, marlo, do you understand the role that abortion and abortion politics played, both in the feminist movement, and also in the backlash? >> well, i think the idea of the best way to control an entire majority of the country is to tell them that they're not in control of their own bodies. you know, and so that fight for -- their can't be any more personal decision for a man and a woman, is to decide whether or not they want to have a family. and whether or not they want to have more of a family. or whatever. even your sexuality. the idea that today we're actually hearing whether or not we have the choice for contraception. i mean, whether or not men and women decide to have sex in
their own house, that should not be anybody else's decision but ours. so it's so fundamental. when we have sex. how many times we have baby. all of that depends on how we face our lives. >> but what's fascinating to me, i was looking at the data. pew did poli polling on 0 abort. roe should not be overturned, 50%, 60%. but no zero difference on men in this position. one of the things that makers does really well and to be lauded for, it shows the backlash. the women in the backlash movement. phyllis flashily is very prominent in it. how do you understand your sisters on the other side of this battle? >> well, i think that the right wing promises women safety and
protection. and many, many good things that women crave, in return for giving up or autonomy and yourself self-authority. but to go back to a minute what you were saying about abortion or reproductive freedom as a fundamental human right and that that affects everything about a women's life. it's true. it's our longevity. it's our health. it's our ability to beet indicated. that's absolutely true. but it is the fundamental of the nation, too, to be able to control how many workers, how many soldiers, to influence what class and what race they are. so, it is -- it is fundamental. and totalitarian regimes around the world start there. >> right. >> the first thing that the national socialists did when hitler got elected. and he did get elected on a low voter turnout, was to padlock the family planning clinics and
to declare abortion a crime against the state. so the totalitarian, authoritarian, patriarch aal necessity is to control reproduction. it's fundamental. if you look now, there's a wonderful new book out called "sex and world peace" which takes, i don't know, 100 modern countries and determines that the single most important element in knowing whether a country is violent or not, inside itself, and whether they would be willing to use military violence against another country is not poverty or religion or access to sources or degree of democracy, it's violence against females because that normalizes all other violence and the reason for that is to control reproduction. >> reproductive politics have
had a tremendous centrality in our politics, and i want to talk about what that brings bringing in a few more guests after this break. just not going to happen. ♪ vicks dayquil powerful non-drowsy 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ no matter what city you're playing tomorrow. [ coughs ] [ male announcer ] you can't let a cold keep you up tonight. ♪ vicks nyquil powerful nighttime 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ get ready for a lot more of that new-plane smell. we're building the youngest, most modern fleet among the largest us airlines to ensure that you are more comfortable and connected than ever.
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look who's getting smart about her weight. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes. harris-perry, host of the show that comes on after this one. melissa harris-perry author of the book "sister citizen." she's also founding director of gender race and politics in the south at tulane university. you get the whole bio, too. >> i know. >> and also executive director of jaws of justice and co-director of an advocacy group for the aging and caregivers. great to have you guys here. here's something i found fascinating about the trajectory of feminism as a political force and policy force as a set of
concrete policy demands. you have the e.r.a. you have this sort of broad vision in equality in the constitution. you have specific legislative agendas that are happening. you have reproductive choice. the backlash around reproductive so fierce and so defining in our politics and our partisan affiliation, it does seem like it comes to dominate the priorities of what we call feminism in terms of institutional life in america. that's a threshold issue. but it also seems like there's so much time spent fighting rear guard actions in the 21st century to secure roe to fight refight roe. every time there's a nomination. fight it in every state. keep the last abortion clinic open in mississippi, right? it's this constant unsettled battle. that the priorities of
institutional vision is focused on securing that that there's less space into forward ecursions into the patriarchy. >> and this division of reproductive rights gets complicated as soon as we start talking about women beyond a certain class or races right? so when i think about the issue of reproductive rights, for example in mississippi at the moment, it is a fight over that now one little pink building in jackson, some. . where they're using every single policy they can to close where it will be fashionably illegal to close one. but the other thing for mississippi, for women of color and poor women of disabilities was the ability to in fact have
children. to not have the state forcibly and coercefully stair liez them. it was not that there was any win in mississippi. it was when mississippi defeated the personhood amendment because it got women who were interested on ivf and other women interested in the right to choose. i guess, we have already lost roe. we're in a pre-roe world where you can get abortions in other states, in other areas. that was true before roe. so we have lost that. and the real question is whether or not we can develop a more expansive definition of what constitution a reproductive rights movement. >> but it's always been reproductive freedom as a phrase. reproductive always meant the freedom to have children as well as not to have children. the focus, i think, on abortion, was partly because of the more
white women were having abortions. you know, the anxiety of the right wing is very high right now because of in 20 minutes we're not going to be a majority white country anymore. >> right, right. >> so it's always been the freedom to have as well as not to have. and the actually, the informed consent to sterilization was an issue that came up before abortion. >> right. i mean, the flip side of the state's interest in controlling reproduction is -- it goes in both directions. depending on the circumstances. >> and when ruth ginsburg was at the aclu with the women's right program she was fighting for informed sterilization. and before sterilization. >> right. >> and fanny lou hamer was the great prophet of this because she was willing to come forward and say she had been sterilized against her will with enormous courage. >> and it's one of the reasons to somehow look like women disagree on this topic because
there has been a misunderstanding that reproductive freedom or choice meant that we were against women having children. >> right, right. >> or we looked down on women who wanted to have families. >> right, right. >> and that's been sort of a real touching point for all of us. i'm so glad that you brought that up. there reproductive freedom entails all of that. >> but that's an interesting point. i'm curious if you think this. it's like when you say there's a kind of belief that women disagree on that. they've been manipulated into disagreeing. it also seems that women disagree every these issues. they have different politics. it's not just false consness, right? >> thank goodness. >> right. >> but i would just say, you know, for a lot of women, as the importance of the reproductive rights movement and reproductive freedom is as important as economic freedom and quality, right? i mean, this is like the other part of what i think is a vibrant women's movement right now. we just see incredible momentum
building around some core issues that are related to families, right? whether it's the ability to -- you know, to make sure that women no longer get fired for taking time off to care for their families and their loved ones. you know, if you even look at all female workforces today like domestic workers who care -- these are the women who care for our aging. our elders, our disabled, our children in this country who don't have basic protections like minimum wage and overtime. these are important issues. and, of course, the discrimination of wages. i just lift all of these up because i think for a lot of women today, reproductive freedom is really important but so is freedom from poverty, you know. >> right. and i want to play the president coming out in favor of domestic workers receive those protections. and sort of talk about the role that women play in the 21st century and the women's involvement in the workplace and what that workplace looks like might set an agenda for progress
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has changed over the years, the law hasn't changed to keep up. that means employers are allowed to way these workers less than minimum wage with no overtime. that's right, you can care for somebody in the morning, wake up and care for somebody all day, take a bus home and still make less than the minimum wage. that means people are forced to rely on food stamps just to make ends meet. that's just wrong. in this country, it's inexcusab inexcusable. i can tell you first hand, these men and women, they work their tails off and they don't complain. they deserve to be treated fairly. they deserve to be paid fairly for a service that many older americans couldn't live without. >> sarita, one of the things
that's interesting here, is the wage differential between those jobs that are coded as male and those coded as female. a friend, dina gold stoostein, s writing a book that is going to be amazing. i learned from her that teaching is male. and someone said if we get women to do that, we can actually pay them a lot less. and that's the beginning of that. there's essentially a wage discount. >> that's right. and that's exactly what we see in the care workforce today. i mean, let's be honest, care workers have been largely invisible in our economy. we don't talk about it. but this is the work that makes all other work possible. all other work possible. these are the brokworkers who a taking care of our children. our aging relatives, our disabled members of our population here. yet it is disgraceful that they
provide care, right? they provide care to our loved ones that they don't make enough money to care for themselves or their own families. you know what president obama said in that clip is right on. it's up acceptable. >> on the one end, i agree with you, they're invis only in the reality of who they are. but hyper v e er visable in who are. >> mamie comes in and sells everything from pancakes to anything -- >> right. >> any household items right. it was about this idea that mamie didn't need a contract, fair pay or time off because she was attached through this familiar through which she worked through a naturalized process. all of that made up the work of who the women of work were in these house holds but we also
have to realize that women were comeconomi complicit in that. it becomes possible because someone is there to clean the house and take care of the kids. and those are just other women who are more vulnerable. >> that's right. just to say, we're in the middle of a major demographic shift. so more and more people are going to need support from care workers, we're a rapidly aging nation. every eight seconds someone is turning 65 in our country. we're living longer lives. we need support and services. people want to age in their homes and they need workers. >> and the biggest transition in america is women entering the workforce. >> that's right. >> fundamental problem is that 30% of the productive work in the country is done in the home. >> that's right. >> it is done for nothing. >> right. >> and it has no even attributed value.
so you have are work in the home that already completely counted as values, regardless of who does it, right? then you introduce people into this workforce that is supposed to be valueless and remains at the lowest -- >> undervalue because you're competing against free, right? >> right. there say policy way that we can approach this. by attributing -- i mean, first of all, the workers themselves are organizing. >> that's right. >> have a lot of support and are changing legislation thanks to you. and we can attribute at replacement value the 30% of the country's work that is done in the household. and taking care of children. taking care of -- at replacement value. and make that tax deductible if we pay taxes. and if we're too poor to pay taxes we can -- >> rebate it? >> yes, we can make it refun refundab
refundable. you're talking about future priorities. so far, we have tried to get equal pay for what is counted as work because men could do it. >> right. >> so the work that men don't do is completely invisible. so that's why we need huge changes in social policy to value that work. the country could not function without it. >> that's right. one of the interesting results of tana, the welfare reform act that was signed by bill clinton in the 1990s. there's an old joke about a village by which everybody is employed by taking in everyone's laundry. it had this effect in the bronx where people opened child care and basically everyone took in the child. it's like i have to work now. there's no affordable day care. i'll go to work caring for your kid. and you go to work caring for my kid. now we're both employed by the economy. if we just switch who's watching who's kid, now we enter the -- >> it's a fundamental assumption about who's a good mother,
right? a good mother is someone who is middle class and has a husband, right? and therefore, you staying home with your child and your middle class and your husband is good for your child. but if you are poor and unmarried then you staying home with your child is somehow bad for your child. and in fact what you should do is go work at undercompensated prices while your child is in child care. >> because if you have welfare, you'll be resented. >> exactly. >> because welfare is page you. >> but when you talk about this as a priority, and i think this gets back to the bag lash, right? i know there are people watching this saying the notion of putting an economic value on the various that a mother gives is perversely monstrous, right? >> well, specific people, aids patients, care giving is 30% of the productive work in this country is invisible. except for what you're organizing. >> but there's i agree, a social norm and expectation of that care, "a." and "b," one of the things that's really interesting about
watching "makers" and watching the documentary unfold. we think about government being first business. private sector versus public. but there's this axis, what should the home and what should the state provision, right? that's a different point than this private sector. and i want to talk about that. >> only because we believe there's a private ector. political is guys. cultural is women. >> i want to talk about that -- >> but it's not true. >> i want to talk about day care also because this is near and dear to my heart, right now, after we take a break. to compete on the global stage. what we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. by 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough college graduates to fill them. that's why at devry university, we're teaming up with companies like cisco to help make sure everyone is ready with the know-how we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure america's ready.
women entering the workforce. 16% were co-owners. and that's up. in 1967, only 11.7% of women were primary earners in the household. that's now 41.4%. that's a massive, massive transformation. and yet, despite that massive transformation, go try to find quality day care. >> i detect a personal note here. >> just not that, affordable. if you can pay, you can get quality day care. >> sure. >> but if you're making the medium income, around $44,000, day care is a commodity impossible to acquire. >> and we're the only developed country in the world without some national system of child care. the only one. and we keep holding ourselves up with exceptionalism without understanding that the exceptional part is not necessarily there.
>> can i ask myself -- we have an amazing caregiver on actual television who we love and provides incredible care of our child. that basically, when i saw in the film, merriam wright elam coming this close to getting day care. like a high water mark than we haven't gotten back to. what would the politics have to be to put that issue, a national day care kim system on the agen? >> we'd have to have more rooms in the senate. >> maybe. but i think this is exactly where the angst about the identity politics of a kind of a women's movement. and the feminist's politics of sort of an organized question of politics to come to the floor, right? because i think we are in a position, where, if you just look at governors. and senators.
we're in a position where we very well might likely get a woman president in the next decade. and she's highly likely to be a republican woman. and there's going to be -- >> no, no -- >> susanna martinez, nikki haley, the women in positions where we actually elect people to the governorcy. >> the gender gap has elected other presidents and the gender gap works against those women because men are more likely to vote for them than women. it could happen but i don't think -- >> it's only to suggest that we may find ourselves in a position where we have to say, whether or not haveing more uteruses in the white house has to help. i suspect the politics of a nikki haley far without weigh -- >> all right, i retract my
uterus comment. it has always been about consciousness. however, experience does count for something. you said in the "makers" film, you were talking about somehow, you end up women working outside the home just as much as their partners end up doing the house work anyway. >> yeah. >> there's actually data on that. there's data on this, and it's pretty stunning, actually. >> i did the dishes before i came here this morning. >> and you -- >> shots fired! by the way, bigger latte. >> i just want to add to the changes necessary, there is a growing momentum. grassroots moment it up i'm of the sandwich generation. i have a 2 1/2-year-old daughter and aging parents. there are so many of us in the sandwich generation. >> explain that term.
>> well, it means you're literally thinking about the care for your kids and the care for your aging relatives. for me, it's a real issue. it's not just for me. it's for million of us of us out there. i think if we can tap into that to really create the demand that we need to address child care and we need to address other care in our country. >> and i would just like to say a word about words. you know, you said that women had gone into the workforce. they were already in the workforce. >> right, right. the official workforce. >> let me say this about the sandwich generation. part of this is, the sandwich generation is much tougher for those in different circumstances. if your parents were part of the greatest generation and they came through with g.i. bill and they were able to buy a faa low-interest home and that home increased in value, and they have a pension, as tough as it might be, managing day to day, they're not going to go into
poverty. they have a safety net. and the problem with the sandwich generation is when your parents weren't part of that system that allowed them to have that safety net and your kids were not allowed to have that safety net. >> exactly. >> i want to talk how you move to something institutional, because the energy captured in the film is hard to maintain over time. we'll talk about that right after this. surgery was successful, but he will be in a cast until it is fully healed, possibly several months. so, if the duck isn't able to work, how will he pay for his living expenses? aflac. like his rent and car payments? aflac. what about gas and groceries? aflac. cell phone? aflac, but i doubt he'll be using his phone for quite a while cause like i said, he has a fractured beak. [ male announcer ] send the aflac duck a get-well card at getwellduck.com. if we took the nissan altima and reimagined nearly everything in it? gave it greater horsepower and class-leading 38 mpg highway... advanced headlights...
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to travel whenever you want. visit citi.com/thankyoucards to apply. and we got onesies. sometimes miracles get messy. so we use tide free. no perfumes or dyes for her delicate skin. brad. not it. not it. just kidding. that's our tide. what's yours? ♪ hello from new york. i'm chris hayes. the northeast part of the country is covered in a blanket of snow this morning. we're looking at about a foot of snow here in new york. an almost two feet of snow in boston where it's still snowing this morning. the nor'easter knocked out power to 400,000 people in massachusetts. for the latest let's go to weather channel meteorologist jim cantore in boston coply square. >> reporter: hey, chris, almost
7,000 without power. the problem is, with this situation, it's not like everybody can get in there after the storm goes away and start hitting the lines, because, look, we got two feet of snow to remove first. then you can get to the lines because all the streets are covered officially with the snowfall here. this is going to put us in history. portland, maine, all-time record snow, 29 point something inches. either way, it's a huge snowstorm in portland, maine. boston, 21.8 as of 7:00 a.m. that puts them sixth of all time. top five here. new hampshire, top three. new york city, you mentioned a foot. there are parts of long island, connecticut, rhode island and massachusetts that have gotten over 30 inches of snow. maine as well. so many are in the 30-inch club, upwards towards three feet. guys, my hat's off to the city of boston, all right? hands down, this thing was coming in two inches an hour last night. they have not stopped. we talked about sidewalks cleared. roads are cleared through here. the good news is, everybody's
heeding the advice and staying off the roads. now, we're seeing connecticut, we're seeing rhode island basically close all roadways there because now they have to get back in there and clean the mess up. the good choice was governor patrick here, he closed them before the storm. back to you. >> weather channel meteorologist jim cantore, thanks for that report. right now, i'm here with gloria steinem, and marlo thomas. and melissa harris-perry. and sarita gupta. we're talking about the document, the amazing documentary that will air on pbs called "makers" that you were both involved in making. and also the prattling on about day care.
and everything from the labor movement, there's a transcendent sublime energy and dynamism. there's these shots at taking the streets in a big march and the confrontation hearings and things like that. and then if a movement is successful, it has to sort of institutionalize itself, right? you get boards of directors and you file. i'm curious, marlo, how you as a life-language activist, think about maintaining that energy, maintaining that sense of intense dynamic consciousness over a period of time? >> well, a lot of it is through legislation. one of the wonderful things about this country, the heart of the land does follow the law of the land. we don't even make jokes about minorities and women anymore because we passed laws that have made us feel differently about things.
i think -- when i saw ruth bader ginsburg and sandra day o'connor talking about on the "makers" special about the laws. to me, that's an exciting part for making it happen. >> that's really an interesting point. it's the opposite of how i think of it. i i think of it ats cultural transformation preceding regular transformation. >> and we have feel it first. we have to understand it. >> if the legislation comes from the top down it will remain on paper. it will look nice, but nobody will use it. it has to come from the bottom up. and that's what's strong about movements for social justice. that people have forced the change in the law and, therefore, we use the law. >> i think we also want to be really careful. i feel it, too. particularly the way that we represent in film, the love, the
romanticizing. it's part of the work i always feel that i'm doing, for example, during black history month. where you want to celebrate the movement, particularly the men of the movement, and you want to give political insight to recognize in the heyday of the enthusiasm, there are political choices being made. the great thing about the world vision that gets institutionalized with its own document is the united stateses right? you get the declaration of independence and human inequality. there's always both of those things. i think we also to be very careful about next generation questions. part of it we can frame this as part of the authentic movement and then we're pushing young women who are developing their own way of feminism. as though it's authauthentic.
>> and young women are actually more feminist than older women. i really resent we have this part -- actually, it's part of the plot -- they keep saying that the young people are not. we're post-racist, post-feminist. young women are mad as hell about no sexual education, contraception. graduating in huge debt which is terrible for everybody, men and women, to be indentured at that point in life. i mean, i think that's one of the great sins of this country. but it's even worse for women, because they're going to earn $2 million less over the course of their lifetime to pay the debt back. and within that is all the differences of race and ethnicity besides that. believe me, they are mad. >> if you read "jezebel" or any
of that, i think that's happening in space. you see that discourse. >> it's evolving which is what it's meant to do. people talk that the labor movement is dead. i would argue that's not true. there's an incredible labor movement out there being won largely by woman. lots of women of color because that's who the workforce is. and it's exactly that. it's evolving, and we have to learn how to understand the relationship of movement to institution. from movement to institution. and when we talk about legislation, it is true that we need to pass legislation. we need the uprising to create the momentum to pass legislation. and then legislation can also change culture. >> right. >> look at family medical leave aact say great example. >> just had the 20th anniversary of the family medical leave act. the family medical leave act is a great part of legislation that doesn't do that much. but what it does do is give you 12 weeks of paid leave.
how many americans right now can take three months without -- >> that's right. >> every other country -- every single one -- >> and you had to fight tooth and nail for that. >> exactly. >> exactly. >> but here we have an opportunity to actually build upon that. and actually brought in what the family medical leave act is. >> one of the things, returning this conversation about how we define women's work and how it's gendered and the 21st century works, flexibility is increasing a premium. a lot of the labor battles happen around scheduling, increasingly. because there's so much juggling, right, so much scheduling juggling -- >> because we have the least family-friendly policies. not only do we not have child care unlike every developed country but we also work longer hours. don't have flexible hours. i mean, we have to start to learn from our countries. >> we don't even have sick days. >> i would just say, yes, and
let's not forget for the majority of african-american children in this country, it's not about flexibility, it's about poverty. you're talking about not parents trying to juggle which i get. and that say real and actual policy issue. and at the same time, i think we have to keep our eyes on the reality that feminine poverty means childhood poverty. and childhood poverty is this country is -- >> i would also say this. low-level work is inflexible. so if you do have a sick mother or sick father you have to care for them, the least likely person to have any power over their schedule are those people. >> and the difference in wage between women with children and women without children is now often greater than the male-female. >> that's right. >> because, you know, all the statistics show that if a women has children, she's viewed by the employer on the average as less employable. >> yep. >> and if a man has children, he's viewed as more employable. >> gloria are steinem,
co-founder of ms magazine. and marlo thomas. melissa harris-perry right officafter this. two more hours of her. and sarita gupta. thank you for being here. women around the world fighting sexual violence. that's next. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. it put me at ease that you could smoke on the first week. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these stop taking chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of depression or other mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it. if you develop these stop taking chantix and see your doctor right away as some can be life-threatening. if you have a history of heart or blood vessel problems,
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i can speak. and i'm getting better day by day. it's just because of the prayers of the people. because all the people, men and women, children, all of them have prayed for me. because of these prayers, because of these prayers, god -- god has given me this new life. this is a second life. this is a new life. and i want to serve. i want to serve the people. and i want every girl, every child to be educated. >> in cairo, wednesday, thousands of egyptian men and women took to the streets to protest rampant female harassers in the square. and it the result of rising assaults in tahir. in india, protests against sexual violence continues despite the government to enact new laws on rape and assault. on wednesday, an indian politician accused of raping a teenager in 1976, currently
serving with the congress party. and it was documented in a disturbing report titled "breaking the silence". that called sex abuse largely common and unprosecuted. they're simply a wounindow intoe grassroots of violence around the world for misogyny and violence. joining me mall -- outresearch your nart for women's network for pakistan and india. it's wonderful to have you out here at the table. >> i guess my first question is, is this an example, when we link these together, these different places in which there seems to be grassroots women's
mobilization, particularly against sexual violence and violence and intimidation. it's just an example in the cliche of journalism, three makes a trend, that we're looking for this there. or in the same way that the arab spring did follow a pattern of contagion in the consciousness, or is there a contagion of consciousness in the grassroots? >> i think it's a contagion. i really think what the women's movement has been doing globally for the last couple decades. in march the u.n. commission on the status of women is focusing on preventing violence against women. and we're going to see thousands of women's groups from around the world gather in new york city to bring attention to what i think is going to be the issue in of the 21st century. >> and that is what?
>> that we have to focus on violence against women. >> i think also the revolutions that we're seeing happening have been happening on a seemingly political quote/unquote stage. and women have begun these revolutions and they're by no means over. and they need a social and sexual aspect to them. for the longest time, when we had revolutions, we were talking about this earlier, we were always told, wait, this isn't the time. we need to fix the environment, education, and then we'll get to you. and we're saying, no, no, you're going to get to us now. you see it happening in india, afghanistan, egypt, anywhere in the world there's a recognition. ands in these revolutions include a very strong gender aspect the pretolitical aspects will fail. >> let's say inspiration instead of contagion, shall we?
there is something about this moment. but also what you said, these grassroots organizations have existed forever. i mean, the first feminist magazine in india was founded in the 1970s. women got to vote in the philippines before we got it here. the u.s. media has been remarkably bad always in covering feminism at all. and when it comes to grassroots feminism, we've not seen much of it. one of the things that's changed, courtesy of our internet. but also to interests playing a key role is the global impact. i did a story about the extraordinary 1 billion rising movement. and her point is not that eve endsler and the vagina monologue is continues.
>> in pakistan, getting attention not only from a global perspective but the politics and social realities of what's happening on the ground, women have been active, but silently up until now. and there is so much international attention. and women are organized and networking with each other in ways that were not able to do so say 20 or 30 years ago. so i think you're absolutely right. that it's been -- the tea has been brewing, but it's finally coming to the cups. >> afghanistan is a very different situation than india or egypt. obviously, all countries are different. but specifically being with foreign troops. with the threat of violence and the return are of the taliban. the taliban controlling some areas of the country. what is civil society and feminist society look like under those conditions? >> well, things have changed from 2001, when america and international allies first went to afghanistan.
in the past 12 years, a lot has changed in terms of women being a lot more educated and exposed to what is actually happening to the women's movement outside of afghanistan. but more specifically, if you pay attention to the regional aspect of it. women have looked up -- afghan women have looked up to women in india and pakistan, closer to the region not reaching out so far to america or europe. and they're seeing that women have been active in changing their society. so afghan women have learned. and even though this whole notion of talks with the taliban or this peace process that we honestly, as women, we honestly don't know what the peace talks mean or about or what they will bring because we're not part of the process. and this has been our fight right now to include our voice and our autonomy in these peace processes because once the peace talks are made and if we're not at the table at the time that the peace deal is being made,
then there's no point in trying to fight it later on. especially knowing that the international community's focus is still on our side. >> i want to ask you if it's possible to make peace from the taliban, from your perspective, given what it meant before. right after we take a quick break. i want you to answer that. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool
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this is a big event of the u.s./afghan women's conference, isn't it, sir? >> it is, it's big because it will have are impact over the years. the idea of empowering women, educating women. and afghanistan is all part of laying foundations for lasting peace. and my concern, of course, is that the united states gets weary of being in afghanistan, it's not worth it, let's leave. and laura and i believe that if that were to happen, women would suffer again. and we don't believe that's in the interest of the united states or the world to create
safe haven for terrorists and stand by and watch women's rights be abused. >> that's a noted patriot george w. bush for the u.s. to stay in afghanistan. and i wanted to play that clip for you from the american perspective discussion of women's rights in afghanistan have been built up from the military occupation and intervention there. from your perspective, how do you hear that? is he right, do you agree with george w. bush? >> to be honest, i wish he was right. there's so many elements or layers to the problem that you just cannot -- i think it's naive of president bush in afghanistan to say if we leave the women would suffer. unfortunately, the women have suffered with the presence of america and the women will continue to suffer, unfortunately. i want to come back to the issue of taliban and peace talks
because that's still an issue that's heavily supported and tracked by u.s. involvement. so when we talk about peace negotiations with the taliban, the question for not only women but the common citizen in afghanist afghanistan, what do these peace talks really entail and what would it mean for women after these peace talks and negotiations are made. the general stand is as long as there's militarization of aid and development in the country, also in the region, as well as krugs and the still activity of the warlordism, meaning people in corrupt positions there is not going to be peace, whether the taliban. >> they did implement changes. violence against women, female parity in government.
two years ago, that same government under pressure from warlords who have been endlessly empowered by the huge influx of weaponry into the country, forced karzai basically to roll host of that back. now it's legal to force your wife to have sex with you. and a lot of feminists say we're now less well off than were we because of this, proliferation of weapons in afghanistan is not good for women's right, mr. feminist president bush. one in five kids not making it through their first year. i just spoke to kathy kelly, what she described as the economic violence for life in afghanistan is almost something that's invisible here. >> i just wanted to comment, you said the warlords forcinged karzai, i don't think he was forced. never forced anybody in that position. it just shows the mentality that exists in the male-dominated
patriarchal society. >> what we see. happening globally, women are the bargaining chips. we're the cheapest bargaining chips. whenever someone says i want to strike a deal with you. and they say i'm going to put women's rights on the table. we said before the break, we're not around the table and our rights are negotiated over our heads. and then we're told afterwards what we have to live with which is why women are now saying we're not leaving the streets. >> mallika, you're just back from india, the horrifying gang rape and murder that happened in new delhi there, i was actually reticent to cover it can have an
air. but it struck me it had the effect on the indian public that newtown had on the american public which is people die from gun violence every day. but this particular thing happened it was so evil and gruesome and horrific in details that it broke something inside the nation's consciousness that just changed the political terrain. is that your sense of what's happening there? >> i do think that's true. one of the things i want to say, i appreciate the fact you started this process with the u.s. women's movement and then you're going global. so we're not having this conversation that everything is all well in other parts of the world and we're fine and dandy here in the united states. i appreciate how this global feminist power is happening. you know, i think what happened in india was a long time coming. and why this particular incident sparked the kind of outrage that it did is one of those things
that we keep asking ourselves. i've gotten to a place i don't really care why it happened. i'm really glad that it did. i believe the big difference that it's made that there were young men, old men, boys on the streets with women. that's the piece of the movement. i think it's time for us to say that men and boys need to step up and actually take a stand and join the movement. because if you think about all of the big shifts, whether it was the issues of race, whether it's been gay marriage, we always needs to have the larger swath of society get on board. so i think men on the streets for women's rights is good. >> i want to talk that and the egyptian conflict. ...with a store full of ways to get it done. we can all throw on our work clothes... ...and throw out any doubt. because right now's the time to take those rooms from... ..."think i can do this?" to... ..."let me show you what i just did."
[ bop ] [ bop ] [ bop ] you can do that all you want, i don't like v8 juice. [ male announcer ] how about v8 v-fusion. a full serving of vegetables, a full serving of fruit. but what you taste is the fruit. so even you... could've had a v8. a quick update on the nor'easter. connecticut governor dannel malloy has ordered all roads closed until further notice. nbc's ron allen joins us with
the latest. >> reporter: things are shut down here, chris. it's pretty much a lockdown situation. saturday morning, people coming up and discovered that the roads are closed. the weather's bad. it's still frigid out here, although in the last half hour or so, the snow has stopped falling. nobody's going anywhere. there's a car coming here. i have no idea where he's going. it's very difficult to get around here tonight, this afternoon, all day. they're thinking that the roads will probably be closed perhaps as soon as -- as late as tomorrow morning. it's that bad at this point. about 37,000 homes without power which is actually good news. the thinking would be there would be many more, 100,000 or more. 400,000 in massachusetts, the hardest hit. people digging out and hunkering down for what could be the entire day. >> nbc's ron allen in hartford, connecticut. thanks so much. stay warm out there. we're talking about feminism and global context and global
women's movements. there was something you wanted to say? >> i was thinking nor'easter, feminists talk about a feminist tsunami that has hit the world around violence of women, following eve ensler, i was able to watch her twitter feed and inbox. what is happening around the world is extraordinary. just yesterday, south africa, a tiny town 80 miles out of cape town, a 17-year-old was found dying on the street after a gang rape and horrible mutilation. that is exactly what you said, a fairly daily event. but in this case, you had tens of thousands of people protesting, including men of the village. a local radio station and the cape town radio station are now playing beeps every four minutes on the radio to indicate how often a woman is rained in south africa. the stories pore in from
afghanistan. from bouton. february 14th is one billion rising day around the world. and eve ensler's got an endless amount. women's movements internationally have been strong and connected in ways the media didn't see at the united nations. hillary clinton's comments about women's rights, human rights, were very significant. built on a movement that will be built around for years. today, you'll see stella beepy, she calls the one billion rising legislation. that sense of having a movement at your back reminded me what gloria steinem said at the beginning of your show. where she said it's one thing to go through something individually it's another thing to realize it's a movement you can join about it.
>> it's to focus on sexual violence an harassment. we were talking in the domestic context, the centrality of reproductive freedom as essentially a freedom, right you can't control your life if you can't control that aspect of your life. it's the same issue, right? it is prior to every other thing whether you can go to school, whether you can get a job, assert yourself in other rems, is to not be constantly besieged by that. that is what this is all about, right? >> absolutely. in egypt, i just came back two are 0 three days ago, women have had enough. there are men joining as mallika said in india. but there's been too much acceptability of this violence.
in egypt it was called teasing. it would be flirting or i'm complimenting you. then we began to use words in arabic that is harassment. this is beyond harassment. now they're talking sexual violence, sexual assault. and language is important when you don't have the word for what's. happening, the social realization of how horrendous doesn't exist. now, the word with activists are using -- sexual violence. or sexual assault. that's an important concept to get out into the public discourse and changing the language of a victim of sexual assault to a survivor of sexual assault. when you've had that transition, it's important. we've had men and women go on television speaking about their experience. i myself was assaulted closer to tahrir square in november.
because i'm older, because i have this profile. because i have a privilege of being able to speak on media like yours, i try to speak out as much as i can. the first, the reaction is horror. when you're on television when you saying i was literally pulling out hands from my pants, people have said, wow, i've never heard that said before. you need people to hear that sexual assault is horrific. and then i survived sexual assault, what are you going to do about it? and then women on the streets saying i'm not going to take this anymore. it's going to get bigger. there's a moment in egypt where people are trying to get us out of public space. >> i want to ask you, i was saying this on break, we're talking now about women and men, and allies of women, and organizing to assert rights but what we saw the u.s. in you a very different cultural context and continuity here a backlash
rose up in opposition, right? i want to talk about the backlash. but i said this during a breeak. when i was watching the revolution. just beautiful, sublime, nonviolence in the streets bringing down the dictator. glenn beck was on, conservati conservativists were saying if you defy the mob, you see violence and chaos. and then the reports came out. it deflated me, depressed me, made me feel that the worst were right about something. i want you to somebody to that right after we take this break. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! officewith an online package new colincluding: domain name,y! thanks.
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revolution. and we live -- we live surround it. >> that is azz assessmea moussa. she's a protester in tahir that happened on wednesday. i asked you before we went to break. the kind of sexual harassment and assault and harassment that happened in tahir, what does that say about the chaos and you need unorder -- >> first of all, i wish i could -- just imagine there's a beep right here. what they do is they create a lot of noise, useless noise that takes up space and they get in the way. they understand that sexual violence curse here. there's a fine line between glenn beck and the anti-rights stance here in the u.s. don't get in my way and talk about egypt. i'm done with glenn beck.
when you look at a revolution. a revolution is basically taking off the lid of many, many years of repression. so you're going to get a lot of crap that comes out. but we're fighting that crap. we've seen these egyptian men and women on the street. we're on the street almost every day. there are mobs everywhere. also, as another small reminder to the right wing and the left wing, the u.s. administration supports a dictator we had in egypt for 30 years that we fought so hard to get rid of and continue to get rid of. and this administration continues to support our president who has not said one single word. the egyptian government continues to get lots of aid from the u.s. and the egyptian police force, too. go on and on. this is exactly what it does, it takes away space from talking about what here to talk about. and glenn beck is not a friend of women's issue. we're fighting the sexual violence and we're going to win. >> and if you take it to its
ultimate conclusion, what are you saying a totalitarian state is the ultimate state? and for months and years, the woman who wrote "women of point zero." there's a story, let's have glenn beck look at her record and see what she has to say. >> but there's also this trajectory in egypt, i'd like your perspective on this, the trajectory of the u.s. in sort of mobilization and backlash. there's the mobilization and muslim brotherhood rose to power. >> had to be. >> of course. i'm curious, is there backlash in india in the wake of this, is there even a space for backlash in the mel tearized world that is backlash?
>> patriarch and misogyny just exist everywhere. it's absurd that after all these years, the issue of immigrant women, lesbians and native-american women is holding up a piece of legislation that we've had for 20 years. let's remember the kinds of abuse, women of color, face in detention facilities in jails that give birth in shackles. just all kinds of stuff that we deal with constantly. and to talk about backlash. if i put on my india hat since i wear both, i move back and forth. right now, we're facing a situation where india's growth story is the story of the growth of women. we have this sex revolution where females are being decimated, eliminated. how do we talk about bag lacklan that? >> i want to talk about afghanistan because we have to
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so, what do we know now that we didn't know last week? well w now know that house republicans bob goodlot, the chair of the judiciary committee are unconvinced of the need of a pathway for citizenship for the 11 million u.s. undocumented immigrants. on the first hearing the congressmen treated the path to citizenship as an extreme far left idea as it would currently proposed require a background check and pay fines and back taxes. with e no we know that the house wants to deal with the issue of citizenship before they deal with guest workers, and we know that citizens vote and guest workers don't. and the first senator to reject the expansion medicaid act, and
governor corbett of pennsylvania said that he would not specify what he wanted, but we know that the federal government would pay for 70% of the expansion and 9d 0% after that. we know that corbett's decision is devastating for the hundreds of thousands of pennsylvanians denied access to care and not the mention the survivors and patients who will be denied care. and six governors have said they would allow the expansion and if corbett does not change his mind and accept the expansion, he will have to answer to pennsylvania voters. and we know that the new sick flu could be making you sick. i had the unfortunate of knowing the norovirus bug firsthand over the break, and it is transmitted mostly by food workers who have 50 to 72% of norovirus outbreak
viruses. and we know that 80% of the food worker don't have paid sick days and so they must choose between coming to work sick or for fit a day's wages and when they make the decision to go to work ill, you will become ill as well. and we know that there is a bill to require employers to give workers five sick days a years, with but the council mayoral hopeful christine penn opposes this and has not brought it to the floor for a vote. if you are a new yorker who has had the unfortune of contracting the norovirus, maybe you should send her a vote of gratitude. mona? >> well, i would like to share about a egyptian feminist whose picture is being shared in cairo with protests, and i am mentioning her and i want the viewers to know about her, because this idea that feminism
is invented in the west, but we in egypt have a long history of feminism. this woman stormed parliament with 1,500 women for the right to vote. she ended her life sadly, because hee was put un -- she was put under house arrest and committed suicide, but globally what we are trying to do in egypt is to resurrect the women who we are standing on their shoulders. >> and thank you, chris, for doing these hours, because it is fantastic. and look at the 1 billion rising website, and leo gerard the head of the united steel workers recorded a video of "why i'm rising" and check it out. 1 billion rising.org. i am inviting men around the world to step up to help us stop violence against women. we are launching 1 million men, 1 million promises, concrete actions and step up and join us and build peaceful homes and
build peaceful communities where the human rights and dignity and justice resonate for us in the ho homes and the societies and the communities and check out our campaign 1 million men, 1 million promises to end violence once and for all. >> i just want the world the know that women are not quiet. women are not voiceless in a region as unstable as afghanistan, pakistan and india. the women's regional network is actively on the ground, on the village level talking to women about their opinions and bringing up their voices to the world about how they feel, and how they are impacted by the insecurity on the ground. i want to end by saying that even though as women, as a feminist and activist, i don't want to admit that there is a backlash in afghanistan, but unfortunately, as long as corrupt militarized individuals are are in control of that region, continually supported by
a great place like america, we will unfortunately as women be forced to operate within a backlash, because whatever is considered western or defined by western is something that we are forced to stayway from. >> all right. may my thanks to all of you. thank you all for coming on. thank you for joining us today oar "up" and join us sunday at 8:00 and we will have new york times columnist and nobel prize winning columnist paul krugman and jeremy skahill who will talk about a killing memo. and coming up is melissa harris-perry. and the amount of voter expression this the news is frightening and that and the looming risk of world war iii of a small rock looming out of the pacific ocean.
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